MEET: NEVERSTILL WINES
Christy Counts at Neverstill Wines Tasting Room in Hudson. Photo credit: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing.
Christy Counts, the founder of Neverstill Wines, talks about New York wine, wine cocktails, finding Hudson + her passion for animal welfare.
Interview + Art Direction: Susie Davidson Powell
Photos: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing
Shoot location: Neverstill Wines Tasting Room , Hudson, N.Y.
The Dishing talks with tastemakers in the hospitality industry + trailblazers at the intersection of food, culture + art. We’re talking with Christy Counts, founder and president of the Finger Lakes-produced Neverstill Wines with a local tasting room in Hudson, N.Y. Let’s get into it.
Thanks for talking with The Dishing, Christy! You’re the owner of Neverstill Wines that’s produced in the Finger Lakes with a tasting room on Warren Street in Hudson. Let’s start with the name. What was the inspiration?
Well, the name comes from the Hudson River where originally in the indigenous Munshee language it was called Muhheacannituck which means “waters that are never still.” It really inspired us as wine is also never still and it evolves each day in the bottle. Our brand is a New York brand through and through and we were very committed to having a name that reflected its roots.
You’re originally from Oklahoma, live with your family in Bedford, NY, make wine in the Finger Lakes, and operate the tasting room out of Hudson. How did you get into wine making in New York State + where do you call home?
It really came about as a perfect storm. We had originally intended to establish our winery in California. However, around four years ago we decided to pivot and put down the roots in New York for several different reasons. First, climate change is causing significant challenges to wineries and vineyards in California with respect to wildfires, smoke damage and drought etcetera; second, my palate for wine has changed – (along with increasing consumer preference by the way) – towards leaner, fresher, brighter, lighter and lower alcohol wines. New York wines display all of these qualities due to its cool climate and high diurnal range (Ed. note: meaning daytime temperatures warm enough to promote sugar development in grapes, while significant drops in nighttime temps preserve acidity and aromas.) So we believe the future for the East coast is very bright and it made a lot of sense for us to pivot. Plus, with each passing season, we see more and more international wine makers turning their attention to our region. The opportunities on the horizon in the Finger Lakes are enormous and winemakers are certainly recognizing this.
As for home, it’s definitely New York. Right now home is Bedford but I’m spending more and more time in Hudson. As my kids come out of school - maybe in 5 years - it’s possible we might spend more time in Finger Lakes. So I plan to make the process organic and see where it leads us. It’s possible our production facility could end up in Hudson Valley or it may stay in the Finger Lakes. Of course, I still have family in Oklahoma and go back many times a year.
Christy Counts outside the Warren Street tasting room of Neverstill Wines. Photo credit: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing.
The Finger Lakes region is increasingly garnering more press and industry-wide respect. Where do you produce your wine and what’s special to you about making wine in the Finger Lakes region?
We have been making wines from our estate vineyard in the Finger Lakes called Hidden View Vineyard. It is a darling 9-acre vineyard right on the left bank of Seneca Lake. The vineyard is special due to its gentle southeast facing slope towards the lake. Seneca Lake is nearly 650 feet deep resulting in something called “the lake effect,” which is the moderation of extreme temperatures around itself due to its deep waters. This effect protects our vineyards from extreme temps in the otherwise somewhat erratic weather in the area. Also, the winds off the lake create an airflow in our vineyard that helps protect our vines from disease pressure. I could go on and on about this but I don’t want to get too geeky!
We’re growing chenin blanc, riesling, cab franc, and chardonnay… those varietals are all cold hardy and do well in this region. Chenin is a little tougher to grow, but we have been successful and that varietal is starting to gain popularity in the Finger Lakes although I think there are only four places growing it. There’s definitely an increasing demand. As climate continue to warm I think we will see more varietals show up in Finger Lakes that have better ripening potential. Like gamay is one - I wish we had planted some already.
Neverstill Wines in the Hudson tasting room. Photo credit: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing
You’re currently producing five wines. How would you describe them for people who might be curious but are more familiar with Californian or European wines.
Our wines are all very bright, fresh, leaner bodied and racy. They tend to be lower alcohol and very food friendly. Our rieslings are especially phenomenal to pair with spicy cuisine such as Thai food, Japanese food or even Indian.
Let’s see. For a post summer tennis match, you know - coming off the court in 95 degree heat - there is nothing more refreshing than our rosé. And if you’re sitting out on the patio at home, or in our tasting room with a charcuterie board, then the chenin blanc is baller. Our pét nat is fantastic when looking for something light, refreshing low alc (9% ABV) for hanging out or spending time on the beach or boat. The Reserve riesling is actually really hearty and complex so it’s capable of standing up to heavier dishes – like we recently did a wine dinner and paired it with osso bucco and it was delicious. It’s also a phenomenal Thanksgiving wine with turkey and stuffing and sweet potatoes. Then lastly perhaps my favorite pairing is of our riesling with this spicy fried chicken by Chef Rob at The Aviary in Kinderhook. It could even go with takeout Indian food. There’s something about the combination of this wine with something spicy. Heavenly.
You mentioned your wines are lower ABV. There’s language these days around natural wines, organic practices, biodynamic wine and so on. Is Neverstill a natural wine company? Can you talk about your wine making process?
Yes, our wines are all under 14% ABV. The riesling is 11.5%, pet nat 9.5%, rosé 12%, chenin 13.5% and reserve riesling is 13%.
Our Hidden View Vineyard is a sustainability certified vineyard through the NY Grape and Wine Foundation. That is quite a process I’ll tell you, and it’s a relatively newer program in the state of New York. The words “natural” when labeling wine can be very divisive. Mainly, the confusion comes from no real definition of what a “natural” wine is. In fact, there are numerous definitions and nothing standard for consumers to understand. For us, we are a winery that works at growing our grapes and making our wines with minimal intervention. Additionally, sustainability is a fundamental value for our brand and we make stable and continuous efforts to be the very best we can be.
Neverstill is a woman-owned business, you brought on a woman winemaker and, until recently, had an all-women crew in the tasting room. Personally, you’re WSET level 3 certified and are working on your WSET level 4 certification. In some ways, I hate to specify “women winemaker,” just like “female chef” seems ridiculous when a chef is a chef and a winemaker is a winemaker. But let’s talk about it. Have you had any hurdles as women in a male-dominated field?
Yes! You are right! We launched as a completely woman-owned and woman-led wine brand. However, we have grown in our short time….a lot. So now, we are woman-owned and have both women and men both in our tasting room and on our winemaking team. At this point we have some outstanding men also working on our brand and doing a great job so, it’s still woman-owned and “led” as I am the President. However, there are too many people working hard on our brand to only call out the women at this point. As far as hurdles in a male-dominated field… In a place like Hudson there seems to be a strong love for female-owned and led brands. However, we are such a young brand, I couldn’t say for certain how potential sexism is creating some of our hurdles. Ask me next year!
I often talk with chefs and restaurateurs about work/life balance to avoid burnout. You currently produce and self-distribute Neverstill Wines which puts you on the road a lot. How do you create a balance and how will you scale up as demand grows?
In full transparency, right now there is no work/life balance. However, I write that off as a result of still being a start-up. I look forward to the coming years where work/life balance might happen! Regarding scaling, we just added our first Sales Manager which has been great. Our next add will probably be an Operations Manager which will also be a huge bonus.
Christy Counts in the Neverstill Wines tasting room in Hudson. Photo credit: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing
Before wine making, you had a long career in non-profit management for animal welfare. Can you talk about your involvement in this area? Are you still involved in NY?
Yes, so first I was addressing the dog/cat euthanasia issue in Oklahoma through the Oklahoma Humane Society and then the horse slaughter issue nationally through my work at The Right Horse Initiative which I founded. We partnered with agencies nationwide to work with them on policies and this was a huge part of my life over a 25-year career. It was incredibly meaningful and rich with purpose, although it was also heavy and sad at times. Switching over to winemaking has been a welcome relief to a bit of burnout I was experiencing. And when you operate a tasting room, everyone is happy when they come in the door — and certainly when they walk out the door! I am only peripherally involved in animal welfare now. I gave up my board positions when we launched the Neverstill brand as I just haven’t had any extra time. However, animal welfare advocacy is part of my core being and I am confident I will re-engage when I do have more time.
I just have one horse now - his name is Chili and he’s 15 years old. I brought him with me from Oklahoma.
What made you choose Hudson for your tasting room location?
I have always loved Hudson since moving to New York 12 years ago. The creative energy here is unlike anything I’ve experienced. The talent of the residents is insane. I am most certainly the most boring person in this town. The decision to locate the tasting room in Hudson is nothing more than the best excuse ever to spend more time personally in Hudson.
The threat of high tariffs on European wines continues to be a concern for wine bars and restaurants in the US, but it does mean many are looking more favorably on domestically produced wines. How is it impacting Neverstill? Is that what you’re seeing?
Yes, we have seen that a bit. Wine bars and restaurants are more willing to go outside the box of their normal distribution channels to find something local. I guess it is our time to shine! However, we are a very small, boutique winery so we don’t really do much wholesale.
Let’s focus on local things. When out of town friends come to visit, where are your 3 favorite places in the Capital Region or Hudson Valley that you’d take them for breakfast, lunch or dinner?
One of my new favorite restaurants for dinner is Via Cassia in Hudson, it is fabulous and the owners are wonderful. I’m also a diehard fan of Feast and Floret in Hudson. You just can’t beat their ambiance, and the menu is always changing and delicious. Lastly, The Aviary in Kinderhook where Chef Robert is making delicious and innovative dishes that always surprise and delight. Plus their Asian flare and combo of sweet and spicy flavor profiles go perfectly with our wines.
When we first met you were building out your tasting room and we ended up talking about amazing restaurants and the hunt for great wine lists. Where have you been that was memorable for dinner and a killer wine list? Is there any place you’re really keen to get Neverstill on the wine list?
My whole life I have traveled internationally and lived and breathed restaurants and wine lists but over the last year I have just been laser-focused on all things local, so if you had asked me that questions anytime in recent years I’d have had other answers in mind! Definitely we’d like to see our wines on the Stissing House wine list. We haven’t connected with them yet, but we will. We were just added to the wine list at Julia’s Local which we are really excited about for sure. And as I said, some of my favorite meals of late have been at The Aviary in Kinderhook. It really is fantastic food and a fun, vibey, yet beautiful ambiance. Again, we are so new that we are really only just getting started on wholesale so stay tuned for sure!
What are some of your childhood memories of food and was it mostly home cooking or eating out?
My mother was wholly responsible for creating my adventuresome nature in food. She went out of her way to bring home unusual things for us to try like cow tongue, pigs feet, rabbit! She was actually cooking these things and, I mean, it’s not like we were living in the rural sticks – we grew up pretty well off in Oklahama City - but my mom is from a tiny town in Cherokee County in South East Oklahoma and this was her way of making sure we tried everything. We’d think she was bringing home these awful things… I remember her cooking the cow’s tongue – it was boiled. But she brought it specifically for us to experience these things. Her dad - my grandpa - was Canadian and a doctor. He moved to an Indian reservation as the doctor and they had six kids. I guess I took a lesson from my mum and have done this somewhat with my kids, having them taste everything from a young age. They were having sushi at 2-years old and eat everything now.
What’s your favorite cocktail or coffee order? Do you have a favorite place to order it?
Definitely a perfectly made margarita! I’m thinking Hemlock in Catskill, Hereafter in Hudson or Julia’s Local in Round Top.
Imagine it’s a day off, reservations and costs are no issue and you can go anywhere. Where in the world would you go?
I have to say Blue Hill Stone Barn — it just doesn’t get any better.
In our conversations about cocktails, you mentioned that you’re fine with people making cocktails with your wine! Not every winemaker wouldsay that, but with people increasingly interested in lower ABV drinks, wine-based cocktails have been trending… And they’re not the juice-and-wine wine coolers of the 1980s. So what’s your favorite cocktail to make with your own wine?
The Neverstill Riesling Spritz, for sure!
RECIPE
Thanks so much for talking to The Dishing. We have loved getting to know you, your team and your wine and we’re looking forward to collaborating. Plus…. all members of THE DISHING SOCIAL CLUB are eligible for a free wine tasting flight ($25 value) at the Neverstill Wines tasting room in Hudson. (*Membership required.)
