MEET: CHEF DAN BAGNALL, SONDER, Kingston
Dan Bagnall talks native American heritage, the meaning of Sonder + why wine is here to stay.
Interview : Susie Davidson Powell
Photos: Victoria Sedefian/The Dishing
Location: Sonder, Kingston, N.Y.
Tastemaker: Executive Chef Dan Bagnall
Role: Chef / Owner
Where: Sonder Restaurant | IG @SonderKingston | sonderkingston.com
Hometown: San Luis Obispo, California
Current city: Kingston, New York
Personal style: Casually refined
Listening to: The Lostines and Esther Rose
Favorite classic cocktail or non-alc drink: Negroni
Coffee or tea – and what’s your order: Oat milk Latte (hot or iced)
Biggest professional industry influence(s): Daniel Humm
Industry trend that should end: Not sure I have one, I kind of like trends. Ha!
“Welcome to The Dishing’s Quick Serve interviews where we talk matters of taste with tastemakers in the hospitality industry and trailblazers at the intersection of food, culture and art. Today we’re talking with Dan Bagnall, chef-owner of Sonder in Kingston who has worked in kitchens since he was 15 years old. Dan trained at the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, and worked at Eleven Madison Park and Le Bernardin before consulting for the Oberon Group on waste-free natural wine bars Rhodora and June in Brooklyn. During the pandemic, he opened Sonder in Hudson before relocating the business to Kingston in 2023.
Dan, thanks for talking with The Dishing. Let’s get into it! You were working at Public Records in Brooklyn when the pandemic hit and you decided to move back to your native California. Somehow you came upon the former Food Studio space in Hudson and opened Sonder to critical acclaim. Walk us through the backstory of how that happened and why you moved Sonder to Kingston.
I am originally from California and during the pandemic, I had given up on the dream of opening my own restaurant. I had planned to move home to do some private chef work while figuring out the next long-term step. However, I stumbled upon the space in Hudson, and it just felt right. After just about two years, I realized that the space, however, was not equipped to handle the food service business and relocated to a larger space with a backyard in my favorite little city, Kingston.
When I first wrote about Sonder in Hudson, I knew you as Chef Dan Bagnall. More recently on social media, you’ve been @DaniRedtail reflecting native American heritage. Why it’s been important to use your chosen name?
So it’s not so much about a name as it is to honor my heritage. I did not grow up honoring where I come from and it’s something I hope to do more as time goes by. I am primarily Hopi and Dine (Navajo), but I want to learn and cook more indigenous cuisine and spread that more as it is truly amazing.
Sonder is a fabricated English word from The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows, a website of neologisms for unnamed emotions, and is meant to convey the realization that each of us is at the center of our own unfolding story. How did you come across the word and choose it for the name of your restaurant which has also had an unfolding story?
We were opening during the pandemic and it just felt so right. I was looking for names that fit a smaller wine-centric restaurant as the original space was TINY; I wanted a name that reflected the nature of the world and our clientele. We are all experiencing our own individual failures, successes, highs, and lows.
You’re a CIA-trained chef, restaurant consultant, Level 1 sommelier and natural-wine fan. At Sonder, which is first for you, the wine or the menu? Does one inspire the other and how would you describe Sonder the wine bar to someone who has not been?
They inspire each other equally. At the end of the day, I love wine, but I am a chef by trade and always will be. I would not even call us a wine bar so much as a neighborhood restaurant with a killer wine program. I’d describe it as somewhere you can have a date and spend some money, but just as easily you can get a $12 burger and a happy hour glass of wine.
The slim Kingston space started out fairly bare with the banquettes running the length of the space. Now the walls are filled with art, every table is topped with huge candlesticks thickened with dripped wax, and you have even recently covered the back garden area. How does this evolution tell a story of your changing feel for the place and the identity of the restaurant?
Sonder is slowly evolving into a simple neighborhood restaurant. I am trying to make it more of a cozy yet refined space, a far cry from the simplistic aesthetic and punk attitude of the original iteration. The backyard is our dream space (we have even more plans for it long term) but its genuinely a wonderful space that we hope people can enjoy all the time.
What does hospitality mean to you?
Hospitality means to care for the people who enter your doors. Serve them hot food, good beverages, and restore a tiny piece of their soul in the process.
You consulted for the Oberon Group developing seasonal, low-waste menus at their Brooklyn natural-wine bars, Rhodora and June. Inspired by the waste-free kitchen and philosophy of Silo in London, you tried to be 90% local, seasonal and waste-free when you opened Sonder in Hudson. Is that the case now and what are the pros and cons of attempting to be?
We are less of that now, unfortunately. We still try to be as low-waste as possible and as local as possible, but business is business, and sometimes we have to make sacrifices to keep the lights on. But overall, about 90% of our produce and meat is local and organic, and we are looking into a new composting system we hope to implement in the new year.
You have had a small staff since opening. Who is on the team with you now + how do you create a work/life balance?
We have an incredible team at the moment. I am still technically in charge of the kitchen but we have an amazing, great group. We have a great team. Ish Perales who has run many local kitchens is currently second in charge and he does an amazing job. I try to find a balance but that’s easier said than done. Making sure I visit family more than once a year, and making sure there are some nights I take off from the restaurant. But honestly that does not always happen!
The pandemic hit the restaurants and hospitality industry hard and the post-pandemic years have shown different dining trends in terms of food costs, foot traffic and customer habits. Even the delivery apps that helped restaurants survive the lockdown are now hurting them in terms of filling dining room seats. What do you see as the future for the restaurant and bar industry?
This is a really hard question. I would say from my perspective offering more options, more services, and really just staying strong is just about all we can do. Many of us small businesses do not have the luxury to advertise regularly or to spend heavily on PR, so it's about keeping costs low and quality high.
Let’s get into your own tastes. What are some of your childhood memories of food whether home cooking or dining out or both?
My mom is an amazing cook. She doesn’t even like to do it, but growing up she always made sure to make delicious yet simple meals for us. I always appreciated how clean and organized in the kitchen she is. The older I get, the more I enjoy a simple but elegant meal akin to those you get at a neighborhood bistro or small steakhouse. Good but casual service, local ingredients served in a simple but delicious way.
If you were traveling and could bring just three spices and condiments with you, what would they be?
Salt, rice vinegar, and hot sauce.
Can you tell us 3 of your favorite spots for breakfast, lunch or dinner anywhere in the Capital Region or Hudson Valley?
I love Casa Susanna (Leeds), Lil Deb’s Oasis (Hudson), Sorry Charlie + Eliza in Kingston, and an Honorable Mention to {pretty to think so} in Rhinebeck.
What would be your last supper meal, wine and cocktail?
I would love a fancy Bandol rose, a classic Negroni, and a massive spread of Thai food. Spicy curry, pad Thai, laab, etc.
Where would we find you hanging out at a party?
While it totally depends on my mood, most often you’d find me at the bar getting a drink and talking to the bartender or a friend.
Imagine your ideal day or night out. If you could instantly be anywhere in the world with no limits on costs or reservations, where would you go and how would your day or night unfold?
In New York City! Daily Provisions for coffee and a cruller. Then The Strand to look at cookbooks, maybe buy one (or a dozen). The rest of the day would be spent wandering around shops and working up an appetite for a huge meal at a fancy restaurant such as Per Se, with drinks somewhere before or after (Ruffian or the Four Horsemen).
How do you feel about the rise in edibles + cannabis use? Is it impacting wine sales? Do you still see Gen Z drinking wine? Is it for you?
So I am pretty neutral to cannabis use or whether or not it’s gone up. For me, I think Gen Z is good at balancing their vices and likes and it’s not affected us all that much. But I will say the shops have made it more difficult to compete for renting nice storefronts — especially in NYC.
What are you most proud of to date?
Just constantly growing. As a chef, a restaurateur, and a person.
Where do you see yourself in 5 years?
In 5 years, I hope to still be running Sonder, while perhaps working on a second project in the countryside or another nearby town. Ideally, working on starting a family, building a home, and just enjoying a peaceful life.
Thanks for talking to The Dishing, Dan. It’s been great to watch Sonder evolve into the comfortable space it is today and we’re looking forward to your planned future projects. Keep us posted if you venture into another town.
