GUEST SHIFT: Kat Dunn, Padrona
Kat Dunn tending bar at Padrona. Credit: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing
Kat Dunn, career bartender + owner of Padrona in Hudson, talks hospitality, Cape Cod summers, tiki drinks + the time-honored practice of tending bar.
Interview: Susie Davidson Powell
Photos: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing
Bartender: Kat Dunn IG: @barsidemanner
Padrona: IG: @padrona_hudson
Hometown: Boston, MA
Current city: Hudson, NY
Personal style: Rachel Comey Jumpsuits, vintage pieces, A LOT of dresses bonus points if they have pockets, adidas sneakers and Doc Martens
Listening to right now: I’m all over the board—a new artist named Madelline, Jungle, Doecchi, Scissor Sisters is always a fun fav of mine, old school 90s hip hop, Chappell Roan
Favorite spirit: That’s like choosing my favorite baby. Honestly, it would be easier to say what is not my jam….flavored anything (at least when not infused in house), anejo tequila, anything overly cloyingly sweet. Depending on the day, I love gin, tequila, RUM (why do more people not love rum??); bourbon has probably gone into last place, at least today
Favorite classic cocktail: 50/50 gin martini hands down every day
Favorite bar ever: Probably the old Iron Horse in town. It’s no longer but it was the greatest dive bar that ever did dive. Besides a 50/50, I don’t often “cocktail” when I’m not working as it feels like work so I’ll always choose a dimly lit bar to have good conversation with good people.
Favorite restaurant: Any one that you hit that perfecta: great company, hospitable staff and good food. I’ve been to some of the best restaurants on “Best” lists but been with the wrong people and it just hits different.
Biggest cocktail influence: Jori Emde and Zak Pelaccio. I’ve extolled the benefits of our partnership but I can say without equivocation that working with them for as many years as I did made me so much better of a cocktail creator, understanding flavors, pushing boundaries, preservation techniques to allow using local when possible. I am forever indebted for their knowledge and friendship.
Drink trend that should end: “Drinks that sound more complicated than they are just to sound cool – “acid adjusted juice” etc. Yeah, no shit we are all using citric, malic, to adjust our juices but stop putting it on the menu like it’s groundbreaking. Pretentiousness in general… For goodness sake, we get people drunk for a living – hopefully drinking delicious things while doing so – but we aren’t curing cancer.”
Kat Dunn, owner of Padrona in Hudson and Barside Manner, a cocktail creation and hospitality consulting company, has been tending bars for decades in fine dining establishments and dives. During the pandemic she launched Buttercup, a Hudson hotspot for hot dogs, lobster rolls and cocktails to go, in a quick pivot when the lockdown slowed plans to open Padrona. Dunn first moved to Hudson to run Fish & Game, Zak Pelaccio and Jori Emde’s farm-to-table restaurant in Hudson where she deployed the seasonal ingredients of the Hudson Valley in craft cocktails.
Kat, thanks for talking with me. For people who may not know Padrona, can you describe the vibe and your vision for hospitality?
Yeah, that's actually in a way, really easy. I really wanted it to be a comfortable setting where you came in and felt immediately welcomed and warm. I'm known for cocktails, but I really wanted it to be about the experience. I wanted it to be about gentle hospitality. And in a town like Hudson, where there are so many tourists and so many people who you will never see again, I really wanted it to be an environment where people who have been in town for 10 minutes are sitting next to people who have been there for 10 years, 20 years, and it's a welcoming, inclusive environment for all.
In an amazing Ted Talk you called bartending “the best job in the world,” but rejected the title “mixologist,” preferring “bar-tender” as you “tend to people, more than what’s in the glass.” That time-honored practice of listening to the customer feels old school in 2025 where bartenders, like chefs, are the new rockstars. Can you talk about that?
Yeah, I mean, I think that really comes from my background and my experience. I've worked at fine dining restaurants, and I've worked at a lot of dive bars, and I think that it's important to think about who it is that’s in front of you. If someone is looking for an appletini, and you know, I don't have apple pucker behind the bar, but now I know what they're looking for I can make an experience for them that they're going to remember.
It's that old saying: People don't remember what you say, but they remember how you made them feel. That's what bartending is. I could have the best technical cocktail in the world, but if someone doesn't isn't enjoying it, then it's not the best cocktail for them. So for me, that really is the most important thing: Seeing what someone wants. That's why my least favorite question is what's your favorite cocktail? It doesn't matter–I'm not drinking it, you know? Let's get you your favorite cocktail. Let's whittle down the questions to figure out what it is that you would like. But, it's still about forging relationships. It's about introducing people who are sitting next to the bar to one another. It's about protecting the people at the bar. That’s why I say a mixologist is only focused on what's in the glass and not necessarily thinking about all of those other factors coming at you constantly during a shift.
When someone order’s Bartender’s Choice, how do you decide/where do you start?
There’s a time-honored practice of listening to the customer so I start with questions. You know, “is there a spirit that you like or a spirit that you absolutely don't like?” And usually people have one that at least they think that they don't like. They might not have just had it in a way that they like it. I’m asking, “Do you want something short and boozy, or do you want something tall and refreshing?” And then, you know, “is there a favorite cocktail that you remember?” It typically goes along so you can whittle it down, and you're like, oh, they really like this cocktail - say, a paper plane - and then I know where I can go with this. And I typically ask, “are there any flavors that you do not like?” You know, just in case. So maybe they don't like cilantro – I wasn't planning on putting it in there, but now I might be a little bit more cautious about putting in other herbs... So that's kind of how I get there. But sometimes people will come out with the most ridiculous things like “I want something that tastes like purple!” and you're like, "Okay, um, cool" and you just try to get there whichever way you can.
SDP: I literally have had someone say that to me, by the way.
KD: Have you really?
SDP: Yeah. I think they had been watching Under the Tuscan Sun… do you remember that scene?
KD: Yeah, yeah, yeah [laughter]
OK. You consult through your own cocktail creation + hospitality consulting company. As you work with bars on new openings, what are they getting right or wrong?
You know, there are good parts and bad parts to consulting. When you're there, you have control over what's happening. But sometimes if they don't have the right people in place, things can go wrong after you walk out the door. I can’t have the kind of control that I have at Padrona. Like, for instance, I consulted at a place and found out that they weren't juicing every day after I left, only every few days. I spoke to the general manager who hired me and said, “Listen, I'm not David Copperfield. I'm giving you excellent recipes, but if you don't use the products that I tell you to use, it's no longer on me.” So I try to stay in touch with the places I’ve consulted since you know my name's on that. Even if there's an NDA saying I can't tell anyone I work there, it doesn't matter. I still know it and I want to put out a good product.
But – I think what people do right is actually hiring a consultant, knowing their limitations and knowing that they also have to have the correct team in place. I can give you the best recipes in the world, but if the techniques aren't there… so I almost never will just sell a recipe. I'll train the staff, and to me, that's like the one where they get to do it instead of just emailing some recipes over and being like, okay, they got it.
I was going to ask about mentors but I already know you worked with Zak Palaccio and Jori Emde at the Fatty Crab and Fatty Cue in the city before they convinced you to move upstate to work with them at their award-winning restaurant, Fish & Game. Your career has taken you from Boston to DC, Manhattan to the Hudson Valley. How has that experience shaped your ground-to-glass approach?
Oh what's really fun is in every place I've worked there are these differences, you know? Like working on Nantucket, for instance, the season is different than doing something out in the Hamptons, or working in Hudson where different seasonal produce is available. Being able to customize my approach to where I am and what people want to drink, you know, that's what it is – it’s all experiential, right? So, I've taken all of that information and been able to grow with that.
But, when you talk about my biggest mentors, of course, it's Zach and Jori. They took me from good to great. I was a good bartender when I worked for them in the city. I was good, but I didn't have the breadth of knowledge about techniques and pairing of foods that I do now having worked with them for as many years as I did. So I can say with 100% sincerity that I would not be where I am today if it were not for Zach and Jori.
Your drinks menu divides cocktails into full proof, low-ABV and zero-proof with well crafted drinks in each category. The non-alc market continues to explode – so can you talk about how you’ve embraced the whole spectrum?
It's funny. I remember at Fish & Game particularly because it was a special occasion place for some people, right? People would come in and maybe someone might be “with child” but the people they were dining with didn’t know yet. So I would know before their friends and family knew. You have to take that with a seriousness that, like, okay, I have to make them a drink that looks like a cocktail and that they can just continue ordering… I took a great deal of pride in doing that, you know, and making sure they had a drink that wasn't just juice and soda water.
To me, it doesn’t matter whether someone has chosen to be sober curious or is no longer allowed to drink. Someone said to me, "This is the first time I've been able to feel comfortable sitting at a bar since I stopped drinking.” And I almost started to cry, actually, because, like, they said “this tastes like a cocktail – if you didn't tell me that this wasn't an alcoholic drink, I almost wouldn't believe you. Like, it tasted crafted enough to be booze. That's exactly what is important. I joke saying we're in the business of getting people drunk, but that's not it. It really is about getting someone what they want to have. And, oftentimes now, people have to drive. So knowing you're ordering a low ABV drink is important. You need to know your body and know what you can have at that moment. I think it's important to give that information, but I also think it's important to get people what they need.
What have you seen that’s changed significantly in the hospitality industry and bar scene since the glory days before the pandemic to now?
Oh, those glory days! I mean, I would say drinking has become different. During the pandemic, if people wanted to continue drinking, a lot of people learned how to make drinks. People learned that they don't have to go to bars. So now I think the most important thing for us as bars is to give people a reason to go other than just for a drink. You know, it has to be about the environment. It has to be about the staff, it has to be about the hospitality, because otherwise, you know, someone learned how to make a Naked & Famous over the pandemic, they know what booze to buy, they watched enough YouTube videos that they've figured it out. So it's more important than ever to give them an experience. You know if someone is dining with me and asks for a recipe, I will give them that recipe because normally it's not just a couple of ingredients that I grabbed off the bar. I mean, our house martini takes 24 hours to make. So I'm like, "If you want to do that at home, have at it!" You know? You should absolutely do that, because you're right, it is a delicious martini! But we take pride in doing that for you, so that's why people will come.
What's your earliest childhood memory or any childhood memory of food?
You know, I grew up with summers on Cape Cod – that's where my grandparents lived – you know, every business I've done has really been about my grandparents. My grandfather was a lobsterman later in life and my grandmother was just unbelievable at welcoming people into her home. They lived to be 101, but they had friends who were 25, 35, 55 years old. You know, it just spanned all ages. And, you know, that's why I talk about just sitting on their patio… My grandmother would make a tray of polenta and all the kids would be at the kid table sitting around this huge wooden board of polenta and in the middle would be like, meatballs or some sort of like meat products. But of course, like, there's not enough for all 30 of us, because we had a big family with cousins and everything. So she'd have us eat to get to the middle, you couldn't eat the meatballs without getting through the polenta. At the time, I didn't realize she was really just filling us up with cornmeal and by the time you got to the meatballs you're like, I'm full! It was really about the experience of being around, you know family and in that convivial atmosphere… My grandfather was really, very funny and I was very fortunate to have that so that's why Buttercup was lobster rolls. It’s how I started doing lobster rolls, but Padrona, you know, even the name is about my grandparents. [Ed’s note: La Padrona means mistress or boss of the house.]
You've been upstate long enough to call yourself a local. Tell us three places you like to go for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
The first place I'm going to say, you don't even have to be a local to know. It is definitely Café Mutton. I go there as much as I can for either breakfast, lunch or on Fridays for dinner. Unfortunately, one of the other ones I would name is Tanzies, but just closed. It was two sisters who owned it and it was like going into your weird great aunt's house for breakfast. You know, doilies everywhere, and teacups. There was nothing creatively fascinating about your omelet or waffles, but it felt like it was made with love. Oh, for breakfast, I do also like to go to Gracie’s in Leeds.
Lunch… Let’s see. When I have to go to Restaurant Depot,I love to stop at Ala Shanghai in Latham. I think that for that type of food in this area, it’s absolutely amazing. For dinner, without question, Stissing House is one of the best around. I think we're very fortunate to have it in our local area. If it was closer, I would go more often. It's really spectacular.
When I'm going down to Kingston, definitely Cleo, and then cocktails at the Stockade Tavern before and after. Stockade is the original cocktail bar in the Hudson Valley as far as I'm concerned. I was fortunate enough when I first moved up here 14 years ago to meet the owners and just fell in love with it. And lastly, Annarellas in Saugerties because It's just so close to my grandmother's Italian cooking. It's not fancy. It's not supposed to be. It's delicious red sauce Italian in a very comforting sense.
Since 2020, we’ve continued to see a lot of burnout and people leaving the industry. What’s your approach to workplace wellness for yourself and your staff?
I'm laughing because I'm really, really, really bad at it, but I do encourage my staff to take the time that they need. It's a very different environment than when I was growing up in this business. In the '90s, it was like, you worked 100 hours a week. You didn't call out, like, to a point that I remember working in a place and having to run downstairs to go vomit. Like, I was sick, I should not have been at work, but I was. Now, I can't imagine having one of my staffers come in if they're not feeling up to being there. You know, so I think, as far as the industry is concerned, I think that we've come a long way in order to get here, right? Still, I'm working on boundaries for myself and taking care of myself a little bit more. I'll have to get back to you in a year when I start to implement it!
We’ve seen a shift in dining trends, fewer walk-ins, more programming, people dining earlier or ordering takeout. What do you see for the future of hospitality?
Like I was saying before, I think it's experiential. We have to give people reasons to want to come out, especially with a potential impending recession, I think it's important for us to look at our market and look at the people who come in and ask how we can help them. Not just not just get bodies in there, but really what we can do for the community. Even if I don't think that it's going to be a huge moneymaker for me, I think it's important to do programming for that. Give people a reason to want to come out instead of just like, "Hey, here's a new drink," or whatever. That's important, but I think the shift that has to be made is that we really do have to think about what our guests want and need and how we can help them get there, because otherwise, like, like I said, during the pandemic, they learned how to make their cocktails. Like they'll be okay. You know, we have to actually be there for them and give them reason to be there. I think that's a great point, that really is.
What’s on the horizon for you, for Padrona or Buttercup?
Running Padrona certainly takes up the majority of my time between that and consulting, but, you know, if the right place came up, I definitely would like to open a tiki bar. You know, but it would have to be like a tiny place and it would be called Cheeky Tiki. Tiki is just supposed to be an escape from reality, right? You know, who would ever make a drink with 12 ingredients? First, imagine, okay, we just did that. But now set it on fire, you know?! So for our anniversaries, we always do tiki, and people come out for it because it's just so…I like to bring joy to people, and that's my way of creating joy. But I'm waiting for the right space to be able to build up my staff and have someone run it for me and do it the right way as opposed to just doing it because I want to.
I love that. Maybe we should collab on a tiki pop up this summer?
Yeah, I would really love that. Let’s do it.
