MEET: Chef Robb Finn, Saint Florian
Chef Robb Finn. Photo: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing.
Chef Robb Finn of Saint Florian talks travel, tattoos, comfort food + finding balance in the kitchen.
Interview: Susie Davidson Powell
Art Direction: Susie Davidson Powell
Photos: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing
Location: Saint Florian, Hudson, N.Y.
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Tastemaker: Chef Robb Finn
Business: Saint Florian, Hudson | Saint-Florian.com| IG : @saintflorianhudson
Hometown: Jersey City
Current city: Hudson, N.Y. + Point Roberts, Washington
Personal style: Super nerd – I’ve been wearing the same clothes since college and high school. Still have the same At the Drive-In t-shirt I had back in high school. Flat footed shoes because I have low arches. On my feet it’s usually Feiyues or Chucks. Always white or black v-neck tshirts. Keep it easy like Zuckerbuerg
Currently listening to: In general playlist bounces around. All our staff are into music and jam together. Huge ‘Have a Nice Life’ recent hotness because we drove out to Amerst to see them live. Also Jimmy buffet in the kitchen, like a Margaritaville, Tom Jones vibe. We’ll talk about something ridiculous like putting the Pussycat Dolls ‘Loose Buttons’ on the menu and carry these things through as funny inside jokes
Favorite spirit (or non-alc): Coffee or electrolyte
Go-to favorite cocktail: Vodka Gibsons
Favorite bar/cafe/restaurant ever + why: Seattle Cannon bar program because it’s so unique. And this amazing bar in Barcelona - an old fashioned gin and tonic bar that’s mind blowing,
Current industry trend that you wish would go away: People requesting things that are in no way, shape or form on the menu!
Chef Robb Finn. Photo: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing
Chef Robert Finn’s backstory reads like a novel from a serendipitous meeting with Zak Pelaccio of award-winning Fatty Cue and Fatty Crab to wide-ranging travels from California to Colombia chasing flavor. With his opening of Saint Florian in the two-story Warren Street firehouse where American Glory once lived, Robb has given Hudson something it needed even more than steak: an all-day, everyday option for drop-in lunches (boozy or not), casual dinners with friends and, just maybe, a successor to the much-missed family restaurant, Kozel’s. (There’s also a Prime Rib service every Monday and a more upscale menu in the upstairs dining room on weekends.)
SDP: Chef, thanks for talking with The Dishing. Before you’d even opened your doors, one online gossip declared a steakhouse too “pedestrian” for Hudson but your inspiration came from Kozel’s, a local institution for 88 years. What was your vision for Saint Florian and how has it landed?
RF: Yeah, you know, our goal was to build something that, you know, still had an air of quality and direction to it, but was a bit more accessible for the town. So, being open seven days a week, running long hours, those were all really important things to me. And I think that we've done our best to fill what was a hole versus trying to plug in something that was a little more like, hey, look at us, check it out. And that's been a challenging part of editing of the menu, trying to not go super into all the craziness we want to do, but keeping something that's comforting to people, accessible, classic, they understand it….keeping it simple, keeping it cozy and really geared towards something you can go to three days a week and eat three different styles. Like you can come in here and drop $20 on a burger, beer and fries, or you can come in here and drop $200 on just a ridiculous Porter house steak dinner. We did a bluefin tuna belly this weekend so the goal is creating something that's still captivating but fills a need.
We have a juxtaposition of clientele that I really like to see with blue collar mechanics drinking an unfathomable amount of Coors and Miller light bottles sitting next to local bankers and well-heeled people up from the city for the weekend. I think maybe that's a part of our kind of dining culture that we're losing where you have a lot of people who have become very accustomed just going out all the time so it loses the fact that like, hey, this is special, and it's a treat. You should be taken care of and looked after. Our whole goal is just well done food that's tasty and well balanced, with attentive service, and nice culture.
SDP: I know you met chef Zak Pelaccio early after completing culinary school in the city and went on to work in his Manhattan restaurants before he lured you upstate to work at Fish + Game and Backbar. Can you talk about that connection?
RF: Yeah, I mean, you know, he is one of those rare people, I think, where he enters a room and kind of garners this amazing draw. He's incredibly well spoken, hyper erudite, and in every way a brilliant person, so being able to work with him one on one and seeing how unique his take on food is from his experiences. I mean, he grew up in a very food-centric household; he's traveled extensively; he's worked in just incredible restaurants and you know, having someone who in this day and age really gives a shit and wants to teach and wants you to grow and wants to edit you is awesome. Working with not only him, but also his wife, Jori Jane who’s just as much a teacher. I remember I did this scallop dish with, like, a sambal and dots of chili puree on the plate, and I sent her a photo and she just eviscerated me with a text message [laughing]... She's like, “Very cool. How's culinary school going?” It was incredible to have these people who are trying to edit you and trying to make you better.
With Zak, it was very hands-on. With Jori it was watching her do all of her fermentation and the alchemy she does, which is just breathtaking. Really that was one of my draws to Fish & Game – the learning aspect of it – like having our hands on really farm fresh produce, working in a team, where Zac directionally was leading it and Jori was doing kind of the fermentation side, exploring so then we're playing with this unique puzzle piece, like OK, cool, we have this fermented chile liquid… how can we best utilize that as a focal point? Working with a team like that is just highly motivational and being surrounded with people that you love, who love you, and care about you, and genuinely you have a human connection with is also a difficult thing to find. Plus, like, you know, working with people who let us play music as a young cook was always really cool to me versus a stuffy vibe. Like it just wouldn't be Friday night service without Mickey Avalon for some reason back then.
Chef Robb Finn outside Saint Florian. Photo: Konrad Odhiambo/The Dishing
SDP: Your menu looks simple with fried chicken, fish and chips and a $9 burger, but there’s fish sauce in the Thousand Island dressing, pickled green peppercorns in a simple Caesar salad, Yemenite shabazi in the fish fry and even a braised celery root involves a six-hour poach and two-hour glaze with saffron, lemon zest, rose water, riesling, honey, fennel pollen and koji. You called it a labor of love, but are you just committed to hiding fine dining techniques in accessible, everyday eats?
RF: Like, there's something amazing in going out and ordering a martini, and seeing the whole song and dance, and hearing the story of some esoteric vodka and esoteric vermouth. There's a time and place for that, but we didn't feel as though we were the time and place. There's a way to do these things with kind of a deft hand that delivers an experience where if you're really into it. So if you ask the questions, I'll nerd out with you for hours, but sometimes you want to go into a place and chill out after a long day, decompress, have a beer that you're not wondering why it's so cold. You don't want to hear about cold looping systems and the runs on our fridges and how we store things – you just want to experience it. It's a bit more “choose your own adventure” in that way with our guests. I've been on the other side of it too where you go to these meals that are three, four hours, and you're hearing about these things. It's like, dude, I'm just fucking starving. I just want to eat. [laughs].
Part of it, too, is the dialogue over price point for us. Like, every fish we bring in, we're focusing on the cooks, teaching them to break these whole things down, putting our investment in there. But at a certain point, it seems performative to be like, okay here’s fish and chips and here's all of the shit that goes into it. To the customer it's just fish and chips and it's $27 and it's really made with love, and hopefully you're really gonna dig it. So if you want to learn more, like “why was this better than most I've had?” we can have that dialogue. But I just think this inundation of information that people encounter in restaurants gets a little tiresome. Like our caesar salad is just really good oil and really good vinegar and loads of herbs and really nice organic lettuces. I think it's the surprising elements of simplicity translated into something that really clicks for some people. And for other people it's just a salad, and that's awesome too.
SDP: When you were leaving for Colombia, Zak gave you a book that is directly connected to your tattoo. What’s the story behind that?
RF: So, you know, the book Zak gave me is ‘The Adventures and Misadventures of Maqroll’ by Álvaro Mutis. It’s about this lookout on a ship who kind of rolls with the flow of life, and it’s sort of like me. As you know, I had the opportunity to go down to Colombia for a beverage director's position. Initially, I was just a bit tired of the kitchen; I was like, "Yes, fuck it, let's go!” And, you know, I think a normal thought process would be, "You've established a life. You've worked really hard to get to these places. You do not speak the language, you do not understand the currency, you have no familiarity with the culture!” But, the best things in life happen when you're open to them.
So I read this book and it kind of resonated with me. It's a very pleasurable read; it’s really beautiful the way that Mutis wrote in his cadence and in the language he uses. I had been following this tattoo artist on Instagram and I wanted to hit him up and I finally got an email right before I was leaving. I was like, "Alright, like, let's go" and told him, “Here's kind of what I'm looking for.” I gave him the idea of the ship's mast from the book and when I saw it drawn out, I was just like, “yeah!” I've had tattoos where I've overthought things and sat and really drilled into it, and after the fact kind of wished I'd let the artist roll.
That tattoo was a big one to me, kind of creating the reminder that good things will happen to you when you're receptive to them. Opportunities and experiences will present themselves when you open yourself up to discomfort. All of that is kind of embodied in the text of that book, but also, you know, in the things I learned from Zak. Once Zak offered to send me out to open a restaurant on the Virgin Islands. And again, it was the same scenario: I was like, “well, things are good. And I don't swim. Why would I go to the Virgin Islands? Like, I don't like the ocean.” But by going to Bogota, by putting myself in a place I was uncomfortable, I learned a lot. I made these deep connections. I still have lifelong friends from down there that I stay in contact with, and, you know, that, to me, is the incredible thing. The tattoo is really a reminder of how chances present. Meeting Zak in itself was kind of this chance thing where another student wasn't able to make an event and I had to cover him, so all of these situations happen, but only when you're receptive to it and you're ready to take notes.
I think taking the risk and taking the challenge is what life is about. There's always going to be time to hang with friends and see family and do those things through a certain extent. I certainly did miss out on a lot of things by engaging in all of this, but it was great. I have these amazing stories and experiences I can draw from for the remainder of my life that kind of empower and engender everything I become in the projects that I do. You know, the equal thing that's incredible is that I speak this weird dialect of Colombian Spanish that every Spanish speaker I've encountered asks, “Where did you come from? How did you learn this?” Because it's this great blend of like, very formal Colombian style Spanish and my inability to grasp, maybe, the various declensions and things, plus, like a really hardcore New York-Mexican amount of Spanish slang thrown in. [Laughs.]
SDP: You went to Bogota, Colombia, as a beverage director for the restaurant, Cacio e Pepe, and ended up as the executive chef. How has that time colored your approach to cooking since you came back?
RF: Well, you know, it was a big switch I think already going from being in the New York culinary world to swapping into beverage. I started in the bar so taking that role on for me wasn't a huge departure, but I think it was one of the first projects where I really got to look at everything as a whole instead of having a bar program and a culinary program and a dessert program. Looking at how these things all intermingle and work together taught me a lot about layering things, and that was one of the first projects where, although I didn't actuate it, we were working with pizza dough and pasta dough and all these different ingredients. It became a question of how could we interplay these things into the cocktail program? And then how to incorporate the kitchen.
It was one of those moments when I was asked, “Do you want to do it [taking on the chef role]?” And I decided, “Sure, let's go." It just kind of rolled itself forward in a very natural way. It never felt as if it would be a reach or maybe, fortunately for myself, it's seldom where I've got imposter syndrome. I'm like, okay, cool, I've definitely got my skills. I think I had a very crystalline version of what we were looking to do there and being able to manifest that, you know, through me, one person filling various capacities, was challenging, but it kind of created this really cool thing that was razor sharp. Like every restaurant, you start with it and it continues to evolve as you go.
SDP: Let’s talk cocktails. You take a cheffy approach to your cocktail menu with a 19th-century Gibson martini with pickled cocktail onions next to a modern clarified cranberry ‘Cosmos.’ Your espresso martini has hazelnut gin; your Bloody Mary has house-made koji hot sauce. What’s your mindset when crafting a cocktail menu?
RF: Fortunately, I had the opportunity to be around Dave Arnold in culinary school, a whiz with these things, and that's where a lot of the thought process of the kitchen kind of tracks in, where it's like, with every cocktail even just talking about umami and texture and things like that. We've all been out and had a Bloody Mary that's a mix from some bottle and it's really flat and doesn't quite scratch the itch. For us, it was about approaching it the other way: Can cocktails be unctuous and craveable? Is it ‘glou glou’? Is it balanced? We want really drinkable things that you think about, and you're like, "Damn, it's a hot day, I’d love to go crush one of those.” And for some people, it's going to be your classic martini, but that's where we look at the other aspects of the drink, so our onions are pickled in house but we do it with a ton of bay leaf and you get that je ne sais quoi pop from the bay leaves in there and the herbaceousness from that. Whether you're getting vodka or gin, it just pairs really, really well.
SDP: You were mentored by Zak and Jori at the Fatties in the city + Fish & Game upstate, and you’re now a similar mentor to your long-term sous chef, Ogden Courbois. How did that come about?
RF: Og was just always the little rock star. We had a dishwasher back in the day at Backbar whowe had to part ways with and one of my cooks was his older brother, and he's like, “my younger brother's looking for a gig." And he just kind of took to it, always willing to learn. He is very passionate about what he does, very receptive, he wants to grow and that’s very refreshing to see. I was always trying to do some, you know, crazy shit in the kitchen back in the day and, I think Ogden represents a really good part of that where he's curious to learn. He's got this wonderfully even keeled temperament. He’s just been a great right hand. He grew up in Hudson and we had the opportunity to get him out west with us for a few years which was great watching him take shape.
The Times did an article back in the day and it was like, everyone like Thomas Keller and their progeny and where they've gone and what they've done, and it ended with Zak, you know, with Fatty Crab and with his time at Danielle and with Thomas Keller himself. And I found that really fascinating, because it was like, shit, like, that it's forerunner, then it's me. And it's like, you realize this line of people that all kind of, for lack of a better word, really touched for one another have this great, like lineage to come from. So I want that to be the case. Like, I want Ogden to be a partner in this. We're starting a full time contracting company soon that's very restaurant specific and he's my partner in that room too. I want him to grow through a role. I also want to give him the opportunities that I wasn't able to be given at the time because of the structures of corporations and things like that. I want him to grow and partner up and be able to give him his own project one day.
SDP: Where did you grow up and what are your childhood memories of cooking/eating at home or dining out ?
RF: We moved around a lot as kids, but my grandmother had this brownstone in Jersey City where on and off the uncles would live there and there would always be an apartment, so the family kind of drifted through that, but that was always our anchor point.
I have fond memories of my grandmother's vegetable garden in her little backyard in Jersey City and I mean, growing watermelons and scallions and onions and things like that. Just being in the kitchen with my mom and her sisters and my grandmother and everyone's sitting around just talking absolute smack in Polish and stuffing cabbage and rolling pierogi and making bialys and stuff like that, like, so those are memories to me and food was always intertwined with time and people you care about.
My mom's chicken parm is the floury Italian seasoned bread crumbs, ragu tomato sauce, and mozzarella, but it's so damn good because there's the attention and time there. It was formative in the way that we showed caring for one another, and even, you know, on the smaller level was just how my immediate family – my mother, my brother and I – grew up, just the three of us. There was always dinner. We always spent time together doing things but cooking with my mother was a way for us to really bond and grow and it's something that I hold really near and dear. Having this time spent just doing this thing, whether it's as simple as shake-and-baking some pork chops, it creates a moment that will never be repeated.
SDP: Alright, let’s turn to other tastes. Where are 3 of your favorite spots anywhere in the 518 for breakfast, lunch or dinner?
RF: Sadly, yesterday was the last day of Tanzys, so my mighty heart is absolutely broken. I've recently been spending a lot of time going to Dan's Diner over in Chatham. Love that old school feel, rebuilt to original condition. Obviously, Tommy B's over in Prairieville. I'm a huge pizza fan and I spent a lot of my career strangely kind of doing pizza and pasta and things like that. Aaron is just like the sweetest dude over there and his pizza is so damn good. As far as it goes in town, Wasabi on Warren is always kind of a quick one for me, 'cause I live right near it and love getting a quick bite of sushi. Padrona for drinks, of course. What Kat does over there is great – her snacks are great, her drinks are great. I love the fact that her bar chairs are comfortable.
Really I've got a long list of places I need to get to, but at some point, I'm going to stop being here six, seven days a week, and I'll be able to go back out and be a real human. I can't wait to check out Manor Rock and Stissing House and restaurants like them. It's just hard because the days that they're open are the days I'm getting absolutely slammed over here. One day we'll be real ones again.
SDP: Think about your ideal night out, kicking back or going out for drinks and dinner. If you could go anywhere without limits on costs or reservations, where would it be?
RF: I'm a sushi nut so I'd probably say Tokyo. I could make someone regret giving me that option in Tokyo, for sure! I think, with money not being an option, Tokyo is where I put my money. I'd single handedly be responsible for the overfishing at that point
SDP: You’ve worked in the restaurant industry before, during and after the pandemic and no doubt witnessed the many changes with people going out less and ordering in more. What do you see as the future of dining?
RF: I remember growing up in school and we'd go to Chili's or something like that. I think we're gonna see a little bit more of a surge back towards that classical comfort. There was a big thing in inspiring what we do here, and it's something I've noticed in menu trends, particularly in the city and things people are opening. It's awesome to go out and have these amazing luxurious experiences at these Michelin star dinners but for me though, I've kind of lost my taste for it. I want to be present in the moment and focused on who I'm with, and all those things without that pomp and circumstance. Comfortability means a lot to me. SoI think that's what we're going to see – a lot more juxtaposition and fusion and reinvigoration of these classic spots.
The team from Mel the Bakery and Meat Hook just opened up Hudson Diner, and you know, they're doing a tuna melt and chicken tenders and things like that. People want these things, but I feel like, you know, the floor is dropped out on a lot of those corporate restaurants. People are painting with a very broad brush and we're these big box companies are just getting everything pre-made. It's like, if we can approach cuisine that actually feels good and is familiar and is comfortable and delicious to us in a way that's nuanced and creative and done appropriately, and with the right ingredients and the right technique, surely that is the future. At least it is to me. Not so much locked in this framework of well, it's shake and bake tenders in a big box, that you just open and fry, but more about can we take the time? Can we fry it? Can we be thoughtful about it? And I think that's the direction people are really gonna start going as we get back into people dining out, and being more conscious of the money they have or drinking less.
SDP: How do you think restaurants/cafes can foster healthy workplace culture? What’s your approach and how do you support your own well-being or that of your team?
RF: For me with this project, I think the way we looked at it was: “What don't we want to be?’ And all of us had worked at spots where you finish your shift, go pound shift drinks with your coworkers till 2 or 3 in the morning, then you get up in the morning, you're miserable, and you go do it again. Part of this was looking at it from a standpoint of tenability and responsibility to the team. For us we make a really thoughtful family meal for the team every day. We make sure people are fed. I'm always the first one, like, when there's fruit around or anything that needs to go, we're trying to make juice and trying to keep that going.
Also a lot of one-on-one check-ins is really important to me, just touching base with the team, and asking how's it going, Feeling good about everything, trying to be more in the moment with them in terms of feedback and things that they should be looking for, etcetera, and just remembering that, at the end of the day, we're serving food. It's not something I have to lose my mind about. It's, you know, maintaining my calm, not letting my kind of stresses bleed into the business.
You know, all of those things are really the starting point, I think, for the ethos. You know, trying to create an environment that truly is an open door, where your staff feel comfortable talking about things, where they can approach you.That, to me, is really the goal that I want to work on. Like I never want to be an owner or a boss where, I come in and people feel like they need to walk on eggshells. I like that my team feels like they can speak to me, they're open about things whether it’s in the business realm or the personal realm and to me, that’s the ultimate success. Also trying to invest in staff when a member comes to me like, "Hey, this is something I'm interested in and I want to learn more.” Trying to carve out the time. Instead of the old like, “yeah, yeah, we'll get to, we'll get to it.”
I like setting the standard, making sure they know I'm working on creating these touch points and giving them the opportunity that they need to grow and to learn things. Because that, to me, is the end game. Like, how do we create a future generation or future ownership that cares in the same way? Plus we engineered things so every single employee gets two days off, back to back – no one's being pushed to work beyond five days a week. It's extremely rare anyone's working doubles. The way I see it, my bills are paid and my team isn't working the way that I had to work back in the day. That's the best thing ever.
(*This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity. )